Surgery in Houston

[GregT]

I've found that the most cures are coming from the Houston team. I firmly believe in the idea of having a team of doctors who do the diagnostics and in having a neurosurgeon do the surgery.

Are y'all going to delete this?

Greg

[Karyn]

Hi Greg,
Thank you for sharing your belief with us. I'm wondering why you felt the need to taunt our members and moderators, though, at the end of your statement?
Regards,
Karyn

[KC17]

Greg,

I also firmly believe that having a neurosurgeon perform surgical decompression of nerves is a great idea--they've dedicated their career to just that, surgery of the nervous system.

However, I also believe that the doctors whom are performing the surgical decompression of the pudendal nerve that are not neurosurgeons, are skilled in their own right. If they weren't, they wouldn't be allowed to perform the procedure and they wouldn't have people pouring in to see them every year. Some have even found relief of this dreadful condition through these doctors.

So if I was introduced to a handful of individuals new to this condition I would suggest they weigh their options (proximity, skill level, etc.). Additionally, we all are most concerned with results---we want to be cured. So I'd also suggest they check around, find out what the doctors are claiming as far as surgical results and successes, talk to others who have been down this same path and go from there.

With that in mind, from what I've read over the last year about this is that the team in Houston appears to be having the most successes (unfortunately we don't have a lot of people like Celeste who stick around and let us know [thanks Celeste, you rock!]). Is it because they have a neurosurgeon who is doing the surgery? Is it because they have preformed more surgeries? Is it that those individuals who were cured would have been cured if they would have had the surgery elsewhere regardless? WHO KNOWS? Not me.

I hope everybody finds a cure, be it from a neurosurgeon or a primary care doctor, whether they got plasma or didn't, whether they got their ligament severed or got a replacement. I want people pain free.

Regards,
Krista

[Karyn]

I hope everybody finds a cure, be it from a neurosurgeon or a primary care doctor, whether they got plasma or didn't, whether they got their ligament severed or got a replacement. I want people pain free.

Very well said, Krista! I couldn't agree more!

[GregT]

Hi Greg,
Thank you for sharing your belief with us. I'm wondering why you felt the need to taunt our members and moderators, though, at the end of your statement?
Regards,
Karyn

You maybe need to look up the definition of the word "taunt", Karyn. I asked that question (and it is a little bit hard to taunt someone by asking a question, don't you think??) because they removed a statement similar to the one I made above only a few days ago. I've begun to wonder if this website would allow any positive statements about the Houston team or the traditional trans-gluteal surgical approach.

It was only natural for me to wonder if they would delete this positive comment about the Houston team too.

[GregT]

Greg,

I also firmly believe that having a neurosurgeon perform surgical decompression of nerves is a great idea--they've dedicated their career to just that, surgery of the nervous system.

However, I also believe that the doctors whom are performing the surgical decompression of the pudendal nerve that are not neurosurgeons, are skilled in their own right.

But you probably would go with a GYN doctor if you were to have a hysterectomy, right, and an OB to deliver a baby, right?

If they weren't, they wouldn't be allowed to perform the procedure and they wouldn't have people pouring in to see them every year. Some have even found relief of this dreadful condition through these doctors.

Much of the "pouring in" has to do with hype and scare tactics, ones not necessarily being given out by the doctor (we know you're talking about Dr. Hibner now). We have some people who are doing their utmost to scare everyone into thinking that if you have your ligaments cut, you WILL develop all sorts of problems. We also have people who are unqualified who are making comments like "Hibner's the best". But, we do have a doctor who seems to be giving it his all to make the PN surgery the best it can be, with Dr. Hibner's changes he's made to the TG surgery. What we don't know yet is if of the changes are producing better results yet. We know they produce a bigger bill, but it's the results that count.

Also, Dr. Antolak is a urologist who does the PN surgery, and you don't see people pouring in to see him for surgery. Perhaps if everything else was the same with him, but he was a neurosurgeon, he'd have more patients and successes. His first surgical patient, if I recall correctly, killed himself. I don't know too much about his patients since then.

So if I was introduced to a handful of individuals new to this condition I would suggest they weigh their options (proximity, skill level, etc.). Additionally, we all are most concerned with results---we want to be cured. So I'd also suggest they check around, find out what the doctors are claiming as far as surgical results and successes, talk to others who have been down this same path and go from there.

I agree with your statement above, except for proximity. If I thought the best doctor doing this was in Libya, I'd go there. My surgery was in France with Professor Robert.

With that in mind, from what I've read over the last year about this is that the team in Houston appears to be having the most successes (unfortunately we don't have a lot of people like Celeste who stick around and let us know [thanks Celeste, you rock!]). Is it because they have a neurosurgeon who is doing the surgery? Is it because they have preformed more surgeries? Is it that those individuals who were cured would have been cured if they would have had the surgery elsewhere regardless? WHO KNOWS? Not me.

Those are certainly valid points. I do think that many of Dr. Hibner's patients may just need more time to reach the point where they are able to have the nerve regenerate and for them to be cured or greatly improved. I've said this many times on tipna. But, in response to some claims that "Hibner's the best", I do have to come back with "where's the proof", or "where are the products of his success?" Listen, if Dr. HIbner ends up being the best, it'll be great because it'll mean that he improved upon the traditional TG surgery. I've got no wagering or financial incentive here. Like you, I want what's best for all of us.

I hope everybody finds a cure, be it from a neurosurgeon or a primary care doctor, whether they got plasma or didn't, whether they got their ligament severed or got a replacement. I want people pain free.

Amen.

Regards,
Krista

[Faith]

With that in mind, from what I've read over the last year about this is that the team in Houston appears to be having the most successes (unfortunately we don't have a lot of people like Celeste who stick around and let us know [thanks Celeste, you rock!]).

Krista (or anyone else) do you guys know how to get other surgeons published success rates? I have tried to reserach, but I can't find anything, but Dr. Hibner's 33%, 33%, 33%, 1%. I would love to see them.

I agree a neurosurgeon is probably best for nerve surgeries. The only thing I personally like about going to a GYN is that my problem stems from GYN issues (vulvodynia) and then childbirth. But I know Huston has had a lot of women entrapped from childbirth who have done great (Celeste included ).

[KC17]

Much of the "pouring in" has to do with hype and scare tactics, ones not necessarily being given out by the doctor (we know you're talking about Dr. Hibner now). We have some people who are doing their utmost to scare everyone into thinking that if you have your ligaments cut, you WILL develop all sorts of problems. We also have people who are unqualified who are making comments like "Hibner's the best". But, we do have a doctor who seems to be giving it his all to make the PN surgery the best it can be, with Dr. Hibner's changes he's made to the TG surgery. What we don't know yet is if of the changes are producing better results yet. We know they produce a bigger bill, but it's the results that count.

I'm not arguing with you there. There does seem to be a lot of "hype" with regard to Dr. Hibner...maybe it's justified, maybe it's not. I'm not a patient of his, nor any other doctor performing the PN surgery, so I can't base my opinions on personal experience. I also agree that there are individuals who firmly believe that if the ligaments are cut you WILL develop the gamut of problems. Do I agree? No, I really don't. Celeste is living proof that it doesn't happen to everyone. [Sorry Celeste I keep throwing your name out there].

With regards to those saying Hibner is the best it is obvious that this is absolute opinion, because there is NO way to determine that currently, if ever. If he was my surgeon and I got improvements or a cure I'd scream from the roof tops that he was the best, justifiably so. However, if it was Ansell or Conway etc. etc., I'd do the same thing. I think it is unfair that some members of this board are targeted for their opinions (especially regarding the ligament debate) no matter which side they are on. The forum can and at times has become a hostile environment--but I guess that's what you get when you have a lot of people in pain talking about how to get better.

[RJR]

Greg,
I don't have the data you have...and didn't as I was evaluating my choice...so I can only relay my experience. I went though the whole 9 yards (diagnostically) at both Houston and Phoenix, studied each approach, weighed the pros and cons and differences of each, reflected on my conversations and experiences with the two surgeons, sought the advice of several of Wash DC's well-regarded MDs, and made the decision that was best for me. Not a perfect process, but felt I did medical due diligence the best I could.

A significant factor for me: I felt correctly diagnosed at one center, and not so much at the other...and my surgery results validated my suspicion.

Having a capability is half of the equation...the other half is in the quality of its implementation.
RR

[GregT]

Greg,
I don't have the data you have...and didn't as I was evaluating my choice...so I can only relay my experience. I went though the whole 9 yards (diagnostically) at both Houston and Phoenix, studied each approach, weighed the pros and cons and differences of each, reflected on my conversations and experiences with the two surgeons, sought the advice of several of Wash DC's well-regarded MDs, and made the decision that was best for me. Not a perfect process, but felt I did medical due diligence the best I could.

A significant factor for me: I felt correctly diagnosed at one center, and not so much at the other...and my surgery results validated my suspicion.

Having a capability is half of the equation...the other half is in the quality of its implementation.
RR

RR,

My guess is that you would not have appreciated it if anyone had given you incorrect information on your fact-finding mission because they perhaps had an agenda, they wanted for everyone to think that they knew more than others did, or because they wanted to believe in their doctor and so they stretched the truth here and there when it served them to do so.

You relied to a degree on the forums and also on the doctors' statistics. We have a duty on the forums to do our best to remain objective and to resist the temptation to favor our doctor (because "if he's not right, then I'm screwed"). That's easier said than done.

So, if anyone wants to not have their messages or opinions censored and be allowed to debate the issues, then come on over to tipna. Just be respectful of those who you're disagreeing with and your posts will remain for all to see. Some things that you can't do is to threaten others or divulge the personal information of other forum members. This has nothing at all to do with debate.

Greg