Health Organization for Pudendal Education

nyt wrote:I will use myself as an example. During my battles with pelvic pain I have developed TMJ. My pelvic pain is due to entrapment of several different nerves in scar tissue from a surgery I had 4 years ago. These entrapped nerves have given me neuropathic pain that has resulted in muscle spasms leading to myofascial pain. I have had some improvement in the myofascial pain when the source of one of the entrapments was removed. On the other hand, over the last 2.5 years, I have developed the habit of clenching my jaw in response to the physical and emotional stress during this journey and this has resulted in TMJ. The resulting pain from my TMJ is not due to nerve entrapment but muscle strain from clenching and this clenching is a habit that I have to learn how to break. To break this habit I have to wear a mouth guard at night and consciously check in on the status of how I am holding my jaw several times every hour. I have to learn to teach my body to respond differently to the pain. So I have muscle pain from two very different causes: 1) from nerve entrapment and 2) from stress response. Treatments for the two are very different. So when the TMJ dr. pointed out to me that I needed to deal with my physical stress differently it was not insulting or offensive but true.

Hi Nyt,
Me, too. I wasn't able to tolerate the mouth guard at night but I do have to be very aware during the day of my chronic clenching.
HerMajesty, Ezer and Charlie: Thank you for adding humor to this very disturbing topic. Hopefully folks considering this clinic will have a little more info to aid in their decision about attending.

I agree Susan Jane that we should have compassion for people whatever the cause of their pelvic pain. However I also strongly agree with NYT when she argues that the cause of your pain is important. As nyt explains Identifying the cause of your pain is crucial as it will also identify what treatment you require. What is most concerning about David Wise is his refusal to consider any other causes for pelvic pain. He is dogmatic in his views. A few times after the clinic I spoke to him and told him the treatment was not working. However he did not advise investigating other causes for my pain instead he told me to persevere with the protocol.That is the trick with the Wise-Anderson protocol. It is never that the protocol is ineffective rather it is the fault of the patient. They did not relax correctly, they did not stretch enough, they did not do enough trigger point treatment on themselves, they are not seeing the right PT , they are not performing the trigger point treatment correctly, they are performing paradoxical relaxation at the wrong time of the day etc. In short blame the patient not the treatment.

I was completely committed to the protocol. My pain does not fluctuate with stress, it does not particularly fluctuate at all and my pain came on when I was content in life yet David Wise still insisted the protocol would work for me.

In my view David Wise sees pelvic pain through the prism of psychology and refuses to consider any other diagnosis. What if your pain is not caused by psychology? How damaging is it to tell a person who has a clear physical problem not caused by psychology that they are doing this to themselves?

Wise will argue that he screens for patients. However in my opinion the screening is not adequate. It is a basic urology exam a patient will have had many times before.

The President of the IC network makes a great point in her statement on the protocol

what patients may not understand is that many doctors, physical therapists and psychologists have specific beliefs or biases that sometimes get in the way

http://www.ic-network.com/forum/showthread.php?p=569296

How does he "screen" for patients? I could have been any joe-schmo off the street, but when I almost got sucked into the Headache in the Pelvis Clinic almost a year ago, after speaking to David Wise on the phone, he was encouraging me to hop on the next flight out to his hotel California. I could have been perfectly well, but no, I was desperate for help, and thank God I had the discernment to knock that one down real quick.

AM

Since Anderson has retired, patients visit with a local urologist in Santa Rosa (not Stanford!). In reality It is purely to protect Wise legally as he himself has no medical qualification.
I had my exam at Stanford then. It was your typical bend over prostate check.
But there was no psychological assessment to see if we were fit for the protocol. David Wise firmly believes that the vast majority of sufferers have tension induced pelvic pain so it goes without saying that you are a candidate for his program. In my class, there was a person that had been wounded and had back injuries (from what he told us). We could not understand why he had been accepted at the clinic.

My comment regarding whether the cause really mattered was in the context of affording respect and compassion to a suffering person. I fully realise that it very much matters when considering treatment approaches.

Hope this clarifies!

By the way, I have no vested interest. I’m in the UK and like most have read AHITP amongst other books. Thanks.

ezer wrote:Yes, David Wise is a musician. He insists very heavily on it in his latest work "paradoxical relaxation". I am sure that David Wise suffered quite a bit during those 22 years but it was not debilitating like PNE is for some. He was in a Klezmer band and recorded music in the 80s.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-travel ... sh-wedding

What is interesting is that one of the musicians beside Wise is Robert Blum. Robert Blum has a testimonial for "a headache in the pelvis".

A Headache in the Pelvis is a lamp in the dark human suffering of chronic pelvic pain. This book is a precious document that will help many people.

Robert Blum, MD

Robert Blum is listed in AHIP as



Robert Blum last worked at Marin Hospital 30 years ago. Blum now performs medical legal evaluations for workers compensation near David Wise's home.

Another interesting testimonial is from Martin F.Schwartz who claims

A Headache In the Pelvis is a book which casts an entirely new light upon the serious problem of chronic pelvic pain, and introduces a treatment that offers hope and relief to the many who suffer from it

He is listed as

Martin F. Schwartz, Ph.D.
Research Associate Professor
Department of Surgery
NYU School of Medicine

but is in reality

Martin F. Schwartz, Ph.D.
Executive Director of the National Center for Stuttering
martin.schwartz@nyu.edu
http://www.stuttering.com/drmarti.htm , - A speech therapist.

Just curious, Charlie & Ezer -
You've brought a lot of useful informaiton, first hand experience to the forum regarding the Wise-Anderson Clinic. People can do with it what they want. What I'd like to know is,
after making the unpleasant discovery that you weren't getting what you (thought) signed up for, what made you stay and stick it out? What prevented you from demanding your money back and high-tailing it outta there?
Please understand that I'm not passing judgements of any kind and am sincerely interested in your response.
Warmest of regards,
Karyn

Karyn,
I did the clinic in 2004 and followed the protocol for 2 years. It didn't work and I honestly forgot about it and moved on. Yes, I read all the success stories and I was disappointed I was not one of them. I really just thought I was not a good candidate for this protocol and I did not know why.
I discovered those unpleasant facts only recently (that Wise has a PhD in sociology, that the testimonials sounded dubious, that Stanford is not involved etc...). It really started when jimf11 was advising every new patient registering on pudendal.info to contact David Wise (and killing every single thread and discussions with his posts) that I thought something sounded really fishy and I therefore started looking into it.
My goal was never to get my money back but just to warn people. The most disturbing part for me is to have witnessed sufferers having nervous breakdowns because they were not improving while everybody else is getting cured in a matter of months following Wise's protocol (on Amazon and on chronicprostatitis).

The hotel is not booked exclusively for Wise patients. The physical therapy is performed in a hotel room.

Karyn wrote:Just curious, Charlie & Ezer -
You've brought a lot of useful informaiton, first hand experience to the forum regarding the Wise-Anderson Clinic. People can do with it what they want. What I'd like to know is,
after making the unpleasant discovery that you weren't getting what you (thought) signed up for, what made you stay and stick it out? What prevented you from demanding your money back and high-tailing it outta there?

It is incredible looking back that when I turned up at the 'clinic' and discovered it was being run at David Wise's home I did not ask for my money back there and then. However Wise gives you something to believe in and when you are in pain that is very powerful.

Another curious thing about the book A headache in the Pelvis is that it recommends the work of Byron Katie as the best form of cognitive behavioural therapy for pain. There is one problem with that. The work of Byron Katie is not viewed by psychologists as cognitive behavioural therapy. Why is David Wise as a psychologist not aware of this? This forum explores David Wise's relationship with Byron Katie.

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,12906,page=76

Real Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is basically the opposite to Byron Katie and The Work, even if one just focusses on the 4 Questions and Turnaround (bait) part of it.
As mentioned, its about carefully adjusting thoughts and behaviors, as explained in their materials, and one can get into Cognitive Science, etc.

There are books out there by Dr. Aaron Beck and others, that do explain exactly what has been studied in CT, and what has been shown to work. But lets face it, sadly, the public does not read books like that.
But Aaron Beck has a simple book, that he wrote many years ago which is a good introduction.

Cognitive Therapy and the Emotional Disorders (Paperback). by Aaron T. Beck
[www.amazon.com]

So lets put it to the test.
There is a recent book called:

Encyclopedia of Cognitive Behavior Therapy
(Hardcover)
by Stephanie Felgoise (Editor), Arthur M. Nezu (Editor), Christine M. Nezu (Editor), Mark A. Reinecke (Editor), Arthur Freeman (Editor)
Hardcover: 450 pages
Publisher: Plenum US; 1 edition (August 15, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 030648580X
[www.amazon.com]


Now, if according to Byron Katie's friend, David Wise Ph.D, (A Headache in the Pelvis), The Work is the best Cognitive Therapy, it should be at least LISTED in the book!
Its NOT listed.
Of course its not listed.
The Work by Byron Katie is not Cognitive Therapy, and its NEVER been tested. Ever

.

David Wise PhD posts links to Byron Katie in his book to give her some Advertising, she posts links to his pain seminars to give him more money from his seminars.
And he is not afraid of making stuff up in print either.
As he knows people in PAIN don't have time to do some research, and see what he is saying is false.
After this, one should not believe a word that David Wise says, without triple checking it.

Hey, Charl!
Thank you for your response. Although I feel badly that you, Ezer and countless others were taken by Wise/Anderson Clinic, I sincerely appreciate the info.
This whole thread has been one shock after the other.

Charlie wrote:Wise gives you something to believe in and when you are in pain that is very powerful.

Yes, I can fully understand that. Which, IMO makes him all the more dispicable.

Charlie wrote:Another curious thing about the book A headache in the Pelvis is that it recommends the work of Byron Katie as the best form of cognitive behavioural therapy for pain. There is one problem with that. The work of Byron Katie is not viewed by psychologists as cognitive behavioural therapy. Why is David Wise as a psychologist not aware of this?

Very curious, indeed!