DR HIBNER WONT OPERATE

[AliPasha1]

Hi Paulette,
I completely agree with you that if there is no pathology in the grip of the Sacrotuberous ligament/Sacropspinous ligament,there is no need to sacrifice the ligaments especially when there is a high risk of developing SIJD,Piriformis muscles syndromes ,tail bone etc. when they aren't repaired or left alone.

That's why Dr. Potter's MRI plays a very important role as far where the scarring and entrapment of the PN is concerned.However,we have had two confirnmations so far from the MRI's but we do need more data and accuracy.That's why I tried my best when I met with Dr. Hibner to co-ordinate with Dr. Potter in order to improve her imaging technique.He said that he still has to publish a paper with her.Dr. Hibner should also let her know if there is a negative reporting on her MRI nad she needs to look into it that why it was missed .The doctors got to work together for the sake of the patients.

The doppler test,EMG testing the PN blocks aren't very accurate tools which have been used in the past and are being discarded now.It has been 20 years since the PN surgery came on the scene and it is a shame that the doctors still don't have a proper diagnostic protocol.

The other thing important thing is the dorsal nerve entrapment.If it wasn't for Dr. Potter's MRI,we would have never found that the dorsal Nerve entrapment also exists.We will never know that how many patients were infact candidates for Dorsal nerve decompression surgery and not PNE surgery in the first place.

Kind Regards,'
Ali

[Karyn]

Dr Potter showed trapped in alcocks nerve and dorsal nerve to the cliyoris he does not believe hers. I

I'm so upset that Dr hibner does not want to listen to Dr Potter. And Dr Potter emailed Dr hibner and was actually upset I had another MRI by someone else.

However,we have had two confirnmations so far from the MRI's but we do need more data and accuracy.

So, I wonder where this disparity is coming from? I don't understand how Dr. Hibner could consider (2) MRI's "a GPS" and then totally discount another? Missingmylife42 presented not one, but TWO reports. I thought Dr. Hibner was somehow incorporating Dr. Potter into his protocol?

[AliPasha1]

Dear Karyn,
That;s what I thought?I need to talk to her again what the deal was?I think Dr. Hibner wanted to be careful and try everything before he proceeds with the surgery.I think he was being cautious.Even though,he repairs the ST ligaments with Cadavers,this is quite a tough recovery for the patient and no normal surgery.

Kind Regards,
Ali

[Karyn]

Hi Ali!
I understand what you're saying about Dr. Hibner wanting to be cautious. BUT... if what Missing is saying is correct about him not acknowledging Potters MRI, or disagreeing with it, that's something all together different. It would be nice if Missing came back to clarify.
Warmest of regards,
Karyn

[GregT]

Us Dr Potter showed trapped in alcocks nerve

It's called "alcock's canal", another place besides the ligaments where the pudendal nerve runs.

and dorsal nerve to the cliyoris he does not believe hers.

So you're saying that Dr. Hibner doesn't believe that Dr. Potter's readings of your MRI are correct? Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong. To me, it would be very odd if Hibner believed his own radiologist over Dr. Potter. I had the MRI only with the Phoenix radiologist (Kal*******) and it didn't show anything. Do realize that I already had the surgery more than 9 years ago in France. I really don't know if it's been proven that this doctor can do what Potter does.

I have q pump on left side and I'm done the first time after five blocks this is cat scan guided that's how They all should have been. Now my right side is burning is on fire. He wont put two pumps in he never has afraid of too much marxaine cause I hallunciated with lidocaine. I'm so upset Dr kalaklon MRI is not showing nothing.

Again, I have a hard time understanding how a proven (at least with 2 patients) doctor such as Potter is now somehow overruled by Dr. Kalaklon, who just learned it from Potter. This is weird.

I also had this MRI the day laproscopic surgery. I don't want to leave arizonia until I am numb on both sides. I'm so upset that Dr hibner does not want to listen to Dr Potter. And Dr Potter emailed Dr hibner and was actually upset I had another MRI by someone else. Well I wanted to and SR hibner wanted yo compare reports. So here I lay still in the hospital Just. Not knowing anything. Its very hard to get a word in when Dr hib is talking. I know he does not want to jump into surgery but would the. Pump work qnays if I didn't have entrapmns Croesus It work on everyone

[GregT]

Are you sure he said he wouldn't operate at all? I'm also seeing Dr. Hibner, and he is very cautious about sending people directly to surgery. He wanted me to try the pain pump and then botox and a PT eval before surgery, but after explaining ( and crying) that I really didn't want to want for surgery any longer, he agreed to just do the botox and PT eval. He also sent me to have an MRI at St. Josephs's and like yours, mine apparently came back normal. This hasn't affected his treatment plan (including surgery) though. I think he just really want people to go through all the treatment options first before having the surgery.

One of the problems with Dr. Hibner is that he doesn't spend as much time on PN patients as would a doctor who specialized more so on PN patients. He only does one surgery per week, so he has to send you on your way to do something else until he can consider offering surgery. Many times he's sent patients to Dr. Weiss (ugh!) for diagnosing (injections, PT, all very expensive). I know that he believes his surgery is the best, but he might need to point some patients on to another surgery team like Houston who could readily see you much faster than he can address your pain.

I believe that he needs to see if he can get his radiologist (K****) to go and work with Dr. Potter and see how she does hers. To learn something from someone else and then to suddenly become the expert over the person who taught you is not normal.

Greg

[GregT]

No, I wouldnt think it proves that you are entrapped...at most, it proves that the pudendal nerve is most likely involved in some way but people can have neuralgia from other causes than entrapment.

sgrandy,

Can you give some examples of having "neuralgia" but not being entrapped. I read below that you believe that your tight muscles are the cause of your neuralgia, but I have to say, I don't understand how that would work.

Thanks

Greg

Yes, the pain pump *would* causes numbness for anyone not just for those with pudendal symptoms (basically, if you hooked up someone completely asymptomatic they would still have numbness).

I think you need to clarify with Dr. Hibner exactly what his treatment plan is for you. I think it is wise of him not to jump into surgery given the variation in cause of pudendal pain...if you have pudendal neuralgia due to other causes and not due to entrapment than all the surgery in the world to release an entrapment will not work. You also have to remember that the 3T MRI and Dr. Potter are not infallible and it is not yet a recognized or widely acceptable means of diagnosing pudendal nerve entrapment....keep in mind that there have been no studies done to compare asymptomatic people against symptomatic people and what the results would ultimately show in each group. I am definitely not saying that the results are not accurate...I'm just saying it makes no sense to base an entire treatment plan on something that hasn't been proven *enough* at this point.

[GregT]

Hi Paulette,
I completely agree with you that if there is no pathology in the grip of the Sacrotuberous ligament/Sacropspinous ligament,there is no need to sacrifice the ligaments especially when there is a high risk of developing SIJD,Piriformis muscles syndromes ,tail bone etc. when they aren't repaired or left alone.

There is not a "high risk" of developing any problems from having the ligaments cut. Just because you can point to a handful of patients who've developed problems hardly makes it a "high risk". If you're going to continue to spew this sort of nonsense throughout this forum, I'll follow you around and post information contrary to what you're posting. You are a relative newbie in the scheme of things in all things related to PN, but you talk like you've known many patients who've had their ligaments cut.

I'll see you on your next post when you talk about ligaments.

Oh.....kindest regards.

Greg

That's why Dr. Potter's MRI plays a very important role as far where the scarring and entrapment of the PN is concerned.However,we have had two confirnmations so far from the MRI's but we do need more data and accuracy.That's why I tried my best when I met with Dr. Hibner to co-ordinate with Dr. Potter in order to improve her imaging technique.He said that he still has to publish a paper with her.Dr. Hibner should also let her know if there is a negative reporting on her MRI nad she needs to look into it that why it was missed .The doctors got to work together for the sake of the patients.

The doppler test,EMG testing the PN blocks aren't very accurate tools which have been used in the past and are being discarded now.It has been 20 years since the PN surgery came on the scene and it is a shame that the doctors still don't have a proper diagnostic protocol.

The other thing important thing is the dorsal nerve entrapment.If it wasn't for Dr. Potter's MRI,we would have never found that the dorsal Nerve entrapment also exists.We will never know that how many patients were infact candidates for Dorsal nerve decompression surgery and not PNE surgery in the first place.

Kind Regards,'
Ali

[AliPasha1]

Who said that Dr. Hibner sends his patients to Weiss for diagnostic purposes. I have never heard of that.He does his whole protocol and is cautious of jumping intothe TG surgery because of the invasiveness of the surgery.

Why go to Houston and have their ligaments severed and take a high risk of developing SIJD,Piriformis muscle syndrome etc.Houston's diagnostic tools are obsolete now.eg PNMLT/EMG done by Dr. Poppeney is considered an obsolete tool even by Nantes as well as Dr. Bautrant.They have no proper accurate diagnoses
tools .The only thing that they really depend on is Pudendal Nerve block which causes flares for days,months and even years and to some extent damages the nerve and which is not even a an accurate tool.

As far as imaging is concerned,I remember Dr. Renney wanted a 1.5 Tesla MRI with a contrast which never showed any PN or any other nerve and when I went to him he just looked at it for 30 seconds and then threw it away in a corner back in 2008.Then he gave me a sheet saying my both ligaments will be severed and that's it and I have 30% chance of improvement.When I asked him what are the chances of developing Pelvic Instability when these ligaments are severed especially the Sacrotubeous ligament,he got mad and said that none of their patients ever developed SIJD,Piriformis muscle syndrome etc.Then his question was how did I know about these isssues and looked rather surprised.He was lying,since as we all know that patients from Nantes as well as
Houston did develop SIJD,Piriformis muscle syndrome and so on.Pierre QC,Ray,Madis38 etc are one of them and Pierre QC has posted his experience in Nantes when he had surgery with Professor Robert.I am sure that Celeste will jump in to say that I am cured and never had any issues but there are other patients all along these years who became worse after the traditional TG approach both by Nantes and Houston.Some of them having redo's with Dr. Hibner now.

I also asked Renney about the TIR approach and Dr. Bautrant and he again lied that he has ever heard of the approach.When i met Dr. Bautrant in Aix En Provence, he told me that there were at his workshop in Aix En Provence for a week to see the surgical approach and the visiting members included Dr. Renney himself,Dr. Ansell and Dr. Poppenny.Dr. Bautrant just laughed when I told him that Dr. Renney said that he has never heard of the TIR approach or him.

The best way to go is 3 Tesla MRI imaging but it needs to be further improved for accuracy and all the efforts should be concentrated upon it.

Regards,
Ali

[Karyn]

I believe that he needs to see if he can get his radiologist (K****) to go and work with Dr. Potter and see how she does hers. To learn something from someone else and then to suddenly become the expert over the person who taught you is not normal.

I agree. I don't understand this either. I was under the impression Dr. Hibner had already arranged for the (2) radiologists to work together?
Greg, et al:

I also had this MRI the day laproscopic surgery. I don't want to leave arizonia until I am numb on both sides. I'm so upset that Dr hibner does not want to listen to Dr Potter. And Dr Potter emailed Dr hibner and was actually upset I had another MRI by someone else. Well I wanted to and SR hibner wanted yo compare reports. So here I lay still in the hospital Just. Not knowing anything.

It could be that Missingmylife42 wasn't feeling her freshest at the time of her post and some things may have been misconstrued. Instead of speculating all over the place, I guess we should wait to hear from her to clarify. I hope you're feeling better, Missing!