Does anyone know what ligament laxity is and how it relates to PN? My MRI indicated mild ligament laxity and my pain doctor said this can't be fixed and can be a cause of PN pain. Is the ligament irritating the nerve or is the ligament laxity causing instability with the pelvis (alignment issues, muscle issues, etc.) and THAT is irritating the nerve? Or am I way off base with both these ideas?
I appreciate any input,
Stephanies
Ligament Laxity?
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stephanies
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Ligament Laxity?
PN started 2004 from fall. Surgery with Filler Nov. 2006, Dr. Campbell April 2007. Pain decreased by 85% in 2008 (rectal and sitting pain resolved completely), pain returned in 12/13. Pain reduced significantly beginning around 11/23.
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Positivepoppy
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Re: Ligament Laxity?
Www caringmedical.com gives an outline of ligament laxity but not related to PNE, can only surmise that may be aggravated through alignment issues but not sure. Maybe someone else has direct experience? Good luck with research
Re: Ligament Laxity?
Hi Stephanies,
Very interesting. If I remember correctly, you've done lots of PT. Have you gotten any feedback from your therapists about pelvic misalignment and/or lax ligaments?
Did your MRI specify which ligament(s) is lax?
When you had your surgery with Dr. Filler in 2006, do you know if he cut any of your ligaments or transposed your PN in front of the ischial spine?
Were there any comments from Dr. Campbell in 2007 about why he cut your left SSL?
I'm sorry for all the questions (and no answers!), but I don't think you're too off base with any of your ideas.
Kind regards,
Karyn
Very interesting. If I remember correctly, you've done lots of PT. Have you gotten any feedback from your therapists about pelvic misalignment and/or lax ligaments?
Did your MRI specify which ligament(s) is lax?
When you had your surgery with Dr. Filler in 2006, do you know if he cut any of your ligaments or transposed your PN in front of the ischial spine?
Were there any comments from Dr. Campbell in 2007 about why he cut your left SSL?
I'm sorry for all the questions (and no answers!), but I don't think you're too off base with any of your ideas.
Kind regards,
Karyn
Ultra Sound in 03/08 showed severely retroverted, detaching uterus with mulitple fibroids and ovarian cysts.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
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stephanies
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:07 am
Re: Ligament Laxity?
Thank you Poppy and Karyn for the replies.
Dr. Filler did not cut any ligaments, just sectioned the SS. Dr. Campbell felt the ligaments might be a problem and cut the SS and sectioned the ST. Neither doctor (to my knowledge) transposed the nerve. Does that mean the nerve is vulnerable to entrapment in the ST ligament? I am starting with a new PT soon. My last PT didn't do much with alignment. Based on my recent evaluations, I am definitely out of alignment in multiple places.
Stephanies
Dr. Filler did not cut any ligaments, just sectioned the SS. Dr. Campbell felt the ligaments might be a problem and cut the SS and sectioned the ST. Neither doctor (to my knowledge) transposed the nerve. Does that mean the nerve is vulnerable to entrapment in the ST ligament? I am starting with a new PT soon. My last PT didn't do much with alignment. Based on my recent evaluations, I am definitely out of alignment in multiple places.
Stephanies
PN started 2004 from fall. Surgery with Filler Nov. 2006, Dr. Campbell April 2007. Pain decreased by 85% in 2008 (rectal and sitting pain resolved completely), pain returned in 12/13. Pain reduced significantly beginning around 11/23.
Re: Ligament Laxity?
Well, I think it's possible your nerve could still be irritated or impinged if it is the STL that is lax. You didn't clarify which ligament 
.
Typically, the PN is transposed in front of the ischial spine to avoid re-entrapment in the SSL/STL ligament grip with TG surgery.
It will be interesting to hear what your new PT's thoughts are.
.Typically, the PN is transposed in front of the ischial spine to avoid re-entrapment in the SSL/STL ligament grip with TG surgery.
It will be interesting to hear what your new PT's thoughts are.
I'm not sure how you can hold an adjustment. Maybe prolo therapy would be helpful with strengthening the ligaments?stephanies wrote:My MRI indicated mild ligament laxity and my pain doctor said this can't be fixed and can be a cause of PN pain.
Ultra Sound in 03/08 showed severely retroverted, detaching uterus with mulitple fibroids and ovarian cysts.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
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stephanies
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:07 am
Re: Ligament Laxity?
You are right! I forgot to mention the report does not say which ligament or even which side. 
I guess I will see after my appointment how I can hold the adjustment and if being in alignment makes a difference in how I feel. Thanks again!
I guess I will see after my appointment how I can hold the adjustment and if being in alignment makes a difference in how I feel. Thanks again!
PN started 2004 from fall. Surgery with Filler Nov. 2006, Dr. Campbell April 2007. Pain decreased by 85% in 2008 (rectal and sitting pain resolved completely), pain returned in 12/13. Pain reduced significantly beginning around 11/23.
Re: Ligament Laxity?
You're welcome, Stephanies!
A bit disappointing about the radiologist not clearly identifying which ligament is lax. I guess I'm kind of impressed they reported anything at all in that regard. I had a 3-T MRI a couple of years ago that reported that my SSL's were intact, when they were indeed severed at the time of my TG surgery.
When Dr. Conway called the radiologist to discuss the error, the radiologist then amended my report to say that my STL's weren't present. More:
A bit disappointing about the radiologist not clearly identifying which ligament is lax. I guess I'm kind of impressed they reported anything at all in that regard. I had a 3-T MRI a couple of years ago that reported that my SSL's were intact, when they were indeed severed at the time of my TG surgery.
When Dr. Conway called the radiologist to discuss the error, the radiologist then amended my report to say that my STL's weren't present. More:
Ultra Sound in 03/08 showed severely retroverted, detaching uterus with mulitple fibroids and ovarian cysts.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
Pressure and pain in lower abdomen and groin area was unspeakable and devastating.
Total lap hysterectomy in 06/08, but damage was already done.
EMG testing in NH in 04/10 - bilateral PN and Ilioinguals
3T MRI at HSS, NY in 09/10
Bilateral TG surgery with Dr. Conway on 03/29/11. Bilat ilioinguinal & iliohypogastric neurectomy 03/12. TCD surgery 04/14.
Re: Ligament Laxity?
Stephanie, I had very lax ligaments -- so bad, in fact, that the PT gasped when she examined my pelvis because it was so unstable. Also my chiro essentially "fired" me because my pelvis wouldn't hold an adjustment more than 5 minutes. She said I had chronic sacroiliac ligament strain. The ligament laxity contributed to pelvic misalignment with pain primarily on one side, but my ligaments were also hardened and sclerosed and impinging on the nerve. So, I don't know for sure what's going on with you but I can speak from experience that ligament issues were the primary cause of my PN. I had some prolotherapy into the SI ligaments post-PNE surgery and that has helped some.
Good luck as you get this sorted out.
Violet
Good luck as you get this sorted out.
Violet
PNE since 2002. Started from weightlifting. PNE surgery from Dr. Bautrant, Oct 2004. Pain now is usually a 0 and I can sit for hours on certain chairs. No longer take medication for PNE. Can work full time and do "The Firm" exercise program. 99% cured from PGAD. PNE surgery was right for me but it might not be for you. Do your research.
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stephanies
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:07 am
Re: Ligament Laxity?
Thank you for the replies.
MY new PT thinks that since my alignment does not seem to be affected by the laxity at this point, that the it is not too much of a concern right now. I have learned with this condition that it is impossible to anticipate what will happen in the future, so maybe it will need to be addressed down the road.
Sincerely,
Stephanies
MY new PT thinks that since my alignment does not seem to be affected by the laxity at this point, that the it is not too much of a concern right now. I have learned with this condition that it is impossible to anticipate what will happen in the future, so maybe it will need to be addressed down the road.
Sincerely,
Stephanies
PN started 2004 from fall. Surgery with Filler Nov. 2006, Dr. Campbell April 2007. Pain decreased by 85% in 2008 (rectal and sitting pain resolved completely), pain returned in 12/13. Pain reduced significantly beginning around 11/23.