PT role and paradoxical relaxation by Dr Wise

[Ray P.]

I like your Eckhart Tolle quote. His two books, THE POWER OF NOW AND A NEW EARTH, are two of the best books I ever read.
It is best to read the POWER OF NOW first, just in case anyone wishes to read them.

Ray

[Ray P.]

Just for the record, DR Wise's protocol did not work for me. He did recommend another one of my favorite books by Byron Katie called YOU GOT TO LOVE WHAT IS.

This book is better to listen to. I normally would not say that but it works better if you listen to the CDs.

[Selbourne]

Why were you conducting a search?

Trying to find an old thread of mine,, I sometimes find Google faster than searching forums,

The only thing I see "totally wrong" with genuine user reviews coming up 1st

I have no problems with genuine user reviews, but I do have problems when those who are part of a recognized percentage of patients who fail treatment —and we know 30% fail the WAP— band together on a site devoted to discussing a totally different condition, and post inaccurate, derogatory and libelous comments (as I've shown above).

The treatment didn't work for you? Fine. Post like Ray did above, stating that.

But don't use someone like "Charlie", who has a special skill at making stuff up and crafting bitter innuendo about others, and who has never been to the WAP clinic, to be a cheerleader for vicious threads here about Dr Wise and the WAP clinic. That's what's wrong.

"Charlie" also started the same threads on the now defunct TIPNA, and on and IC site, and elsewhere. Those sites have either disappeared or deleted his nonsense. He also put up a lot of garbage videos at Yourtube,, my god the man has some issues

I'm happy to see that the worst threads here are now hidden,, long may that remain the case

I'm on the hop on a business trip right now, kinda rushed,so can only check in occasionally to answer messages,, thanks to all who contributed!!

[HerMajesty]

Selbourne, Just curious, why do you say "Charlie" never attended the clinic? As I recall he posted photographs from on-site and shared other materials he received from there. Nor do I believe "Charlie" is a nonperson made up simply to defame the WAP, as searching his posts will show he was active in discussions on many other topics and he has also PM'ed me with entirely unrelated concerns about health care access. So this is a real person using an alias as 99% of us do - what give you the impression that he is not a prior participant in WAP, who attended under his real name rather than online username?

[Selbourne]

HM, not he's not a non-person, I agree, he does exist. The chronicprostatitis site investigated him pretty thoroughly and I believe puts forward a very convincing argument as to who he is and what his motives are. You'd have to read that investigation and decide if it's accurate. I think it clearly is.

He's done this before, btw. He did the same thing (made an obsessive attack) on PNE surgery about 10 years ago, to the point that forums dealing with PNE, like tipna, had to ban him repeatedly and post warnings about him. He seems to get fixated on treatments and clinicians and then go into hatchet-mode.

I'm copying this from the cp.com site forum now, which in turn was copied from the old Tipna:

To ALL TIPNA Members:

We would like to make you aware of a situation that has been brought to our attention. Several members have complained about receiving unsolicited PM’s and e-mails from a person who aggressively refutes the existence of PNE. These messages have Subjects like:

One thing you DON'T have
Surprise! PNE is a scam
I know what you DON'T have!
PNE does not exist!
PNE is a myth!

These messages deny the existence of PNE, attack the doctors who are involved helping people, and present a distorted viewpoint. These messages are from a former user, Charles, whose primary username was Northernspy. He has a personal agenda to scare and intimidate people. He periodically has created other alias usernames (in violation of this websites policies) in order to continue his trolling behavior and he has sent hurtful e-mails to several members.

In the Community section, you will see several Sticky’s including “Northernspy's posting privileges have been terminated” ( tipna.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2513 ) that discuss why he was banned from TIPNA.

We would like you to know that over the last few weeks, Charles has registered on TIPNA multiple times using alias' and that this trolling behavior continues. These alias' have included ZeroGravity, PingPing, SriHabna, SuzyKreplach, and most recently SheilaPapalis, Pooh, and PuPoo.

When we determine that a new User is Charles, we ban the Username. If we can identify a unique IP Address, it is banned as well. We are sorry that this situation continues and we are doing all that we can to address it.

If you read "Charlie's" posts here carefully, you will see that the photos, trigger point maps and other details he reports are all not his. He also reports the price of the course incorrectly, and even reports it as something he was "told". The materials he posts were sent to him by people who actually did attend the clinic (perhaps Ezer?).

Charlie seems to have had a bout of straight PT from Rhonda Kotarinos, to whom he clearly spoke more than a few times. He wasn't cured by her (she does not deal with the psychological aspects so it's not surprising) and so he launched into a Jihad against the whole treatment protocol, including PT, trigger points, and the psychological aspects of pelvic pain. It's all nonsense as far as he's concerned. I believe he's now claiming he had a hernia, and is cured? Lol, sure.

He was also a forum member at cp.com and posted the same information there,, and he posted the same stuff, more or less, at Amazon using his real name, Charles XXXXX[I won't post it here]. So it's known that Charlie aka Charles posted the same information and allegations at a number of sites, including cp.com.

I can't put all the evidence forward here but as I said, go to the other forum and read it (you have to be a member),,
I can tell you it looks pretty much open-and-shut case closed.

Bottom line, we know there are people with issues on the interwebs, and so we have to take a big pinch of salt when we read things, and sometimes we are being fed pure garbage.

If you seriously think the WAP is a scam, you need to explain all the people like me reporting huge improvements, and how a scammer managed to get a whole bunch of papers published in some of the best medical journals in the world.

[Selbourne]

Heyho, just found this,, it's a response by David Wise to Charlie's allegations ...

http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/response.html

[HerMajesty]

That's actually funny, that you came to the conclusion "Charlie" and "NorthernSpy" are the same person...But it's probably an advantage to one or both of them that you think so, and so I shall not point out the flaws in the argument.
When I asked why you searched Google you said you were looking for a post of your own, but you seem intimately connected to the reputation of the WAP and I do not believe it is entirely based on a passion to guide others; I believe you have a financial incentive as well. Is this correct? If so I think it would be ethical to disclose it. I was working for a time with a PT who helped me, but while I was thus employed I was quite scrupulous to mention the financial connection. I think that is just basic ethics. It doesn't defame the PT in any way because I became interested in working with the PT BECAUSE he helped me. If WAP helped you and you now work for the outfit in some capacity, there is nothing wrong with that in itself - but I think you should disclose it.

[Karyn]

Amazon using his real name, Charles XXXXX[I won't post it here]. So it's known that Charlie aka Charles posted the same information and allegations at a number of sites, including cp.com.

Nope. The "Charlie'" you're referring to .... his real name is not Charles. Nor is he "NorthernSpy".

Karyn

[Selbourne]

hi hermaj sorry for the delay but I'm tired and writing this in a taxi

Am i being paid to write this on your forum or has someone asked me to do it, no, n.o. spells no as my mother used to say,,

So why do I do it, just the basic unfairness of the attacks and because Someone Is Wrong on the Internet my wife always teases me, and of course maybe it will stop someone trying the WAP and getting better



About charles.charlie,,northernspy.... lookit, I have probably not explained it well but if the moderators at tipna and cp.com think that charles is him, its good enough for me,

You may be confused that why would he go back to tipna and PNE forums after being banned, well, it was years later and he wanted a pelvic pain forum to post his allegations, so back he went. I think if you search his posts you'll not find a PNE patient nor did he have the PNE surgery etc so it adds up

Have to recuperate from this trip so may not be back for a while, i'll see how I feel

have a good weekend, Karyn too (that's some avatar you have there!

[HerMajesty]

While I empathize, a lot of us have the same frustration with having rare disorders and being told it is "all in our head", "made up" exaggerated", "stress", etc. only to find out later that there was real pathology. As you can see from my signature I required major neurosurgery, which I could not have afforded if I had such a belief in WAP that I had invested my money into that 1st. So I for one have benefitted from knowing there were negative outcomes, I think both sides of the story are valuable; and I think consumers are intelligent enough to make a decision seeing BOTH sides of the story - very satisfied and very dissatisfied customers. Frankly I do not think that the very satisfied customers have any business chasing the very dissatisfied customers around the internet trying to censor their experiences. The meme was hilarious but really in this case there is no "somebody is wrong on the internet", people are sharing their subjective experience good and bad. Have a good relaxing trip - remember you get pelvic pain from "emotional tension" or whatever WAP calls it - so no more posting from taxicabs, enjoy!