This is very heavy going at the beginning but well worth a read.
PART 6. Is about PERIPHERAL NERVE SYNDROMES including and mainly about the pudendal nerve.
http://www.uroweb.org/gls/pdf/24_Chroni ... R%20II.pdf
This is the intro;
1. InTRoDUCTIon
1.1 The guideline
Chronic pelvic pain (CPP) is a prevalent condition which can present a major challenge to health care providers
due to its complex aetiology and poor response to therapy.
Chronic pelvic pain is a multifactorial condition and therefore, quite often, poorly managed. Management
requires knowledge of all pelvic organ systems and their association with other systems and conditions,
including musculoskeletal, neurologic, urologic, gynaecologic and psychological aspects, promoting a
multidisciplinary approach.
The European Association of Urology (EAU) Guidelines Working Group for Chronic Pelvic Pain prepared
this guidelines document to assist urologists and medical professionals from associated specialties, such
as gynaecologists, psychologists, gastroenterologists and sexologists, in assessing the evidence-based
management of CPP and to incorporate evidence-based recommendations into their every-day clinical
practice
I think we would all echo those sentiments.
I have only read it once (so far) and think it is very comprehensive although it does cover other pelvic problems that I know very little about it has to be noted that so far I have skipped through them.
I would also note that there is a LOT of talk about central sensitisation, social history, catastophising and depression.for example.
Chronic pelvic pain may be subdivided into conditions with well-defined classical pathology (such as infection
or cancer) and those with no obvious pathology. For the purpose of this classification, the term “specific
disease-associated pelvic pain” is proposed for the former, and “chronic pelvic pain syndrome” for the latter.
The following classification only deals with CPPS.
2.5.3.2 Definition of chronic pelvic pain syndrome
Chronic pelvic pain syndrome (CPPS) is the occurrence of CPP when there is no proven infection or other
obvious local pathology that may account for the pain. It is often associated with negative cognitive,
behavioural, sexual or emotional consequences, as well as with symptoms suggestive of lower urinary tract,
sexual, bowel or gynaecological dysfunction. CPPS is a subdivision of CPP.
They are terming a chronic pelvic pain problem without any definite pathological problem (infection, neuro problem, tumour, cyst etc) as chronic pelvic pain syndrome which is being attributed to people who are catastrophizers, may have a history of sexual abuse, depressed,without a quality of life,and may have a past history of pain syndromes etc (or any combo of the above)
This is fine, I'm sure there may be people with this tendency to catastrophize especially if life has not been kind to them in all manner of ways. HOWEVER, because the pelvic nerve pain issue is so little understood in the medical world and in the main not accepted it is far too easy for someone with a pudendal pain problem to be placed in this category.
The catch 22 is that as the problem is ignored, because of the lack of medical understanding and therefore not treated, there is more reason to display signs of depression and lack of life quality, resulting in a definition of CPPS!!!
I do hope that this guideline is given to all of the medical specialities mentioned and more.
I am going to use this very up to date guideline, in any more dealings I have with medical pelvic pain deniers, who should know better.
Take care all,
Helen
If you have read this far down you might as well sign the petition for spreading medical PN awareness if you haven't already done so. NO donation is required at the end
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/requ ... g-for-all/
Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
- helenlegs 11
- Posts: 1779
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: North East England
Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
Last edited by helenlegs 11 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fall 2008. Misdiagnosed with lumber spine problem. MRN June 2010 indicated pudendal entrapment at Alcocks canal. Diagnosed with complex variant piriformis syndrome with sciatic, pudendal and gluteal entrapment's by Dr Filler 2010.Guided piriformis botox injection 2011 Bristol. 2013, Nerve conduction test positive; new spinal MRI scan negative, so diagnosed for the 4th time with pelvic nerve entrapment, now recognised as Sciatic, pudendal, PFCN and cluneal nerves at piriformis level.
Re: Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
Helen,
I am in agreement with you again. Glad they are getting something together for the various medical professionals, they really need to be informed. Especially good to see you have some ammunition for the nay sayers, go get them!
Thanks, Janet
I am in agreement with you again. Glad they are getting something together for the various medical professionals, they really need to be informed. Especially good to see you have some ammunition for the nay sayers, go get them!
Thanks, Janet
2007-08 pelvic muscles spasms treated by EGS. 6/27/10 sat too long on hard chair- spasms, EGS not work Botox help, cortisone shots in coccyx help, still pain, PT found PNE & sent me to Dr Marvel nerve blocks & MRN, TG left surgery 5/9/11. I have chronic bunion pain surgery at age 21. TG gave me back enough sitting to keep my job & join in some social activities. I wish the best to everyone! 2019 luck with orthotics from pedorthist & great PT allowing me to get off oxycodone.
Re: Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
Helen, I read this with great interest (just the section on pudendal neuralgia as it is a rather long document). The description of pudendal nerve anatomy is fascinating -- can't remember ever seeing anything that detailed. I'm going to link to this from our publications page. Here is the link that should not expire: http://www.webcitation.org/6BOo1dW5X
Violet
Violet
PNE since 2002. Started from weightlifting. PNE surgery from Dr. Bautrant, Oct 2004. Pain now is usually a 0 and I can sit for hours on certain chairs. No longer take medication for PNE. Can work full time and do "The Firm" exercise program. 99% cured from PGAD. PNE surgery was right for me but it might not be for you. Do your research.
Re: Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
I just downloaded and will read today. Thanks for the great find!
2/07 LAVH and TOT 7/07 TOT right side removed 9/07 IL, IH and GN neuropathy 11/07 PN - Dr. Howard
6/08 Obturator neuralgia - Dr. Conway 11/08 Disability, piriformis syndrome - Dr. Howard
4/09 Bilateral obturator decompression surgery, BLL RSD - Dr. Howard
9/10 Removed left side TOT, botox, re-evaluate obturator nerve - Dr. Hibner
2/11 LFCN and saphenous neuralgia - Dr. Dellon 2/11 MRI with Dr. Potter - confirmed entrapment
5/11 Right side TG - Dr. Hibner 2012 Left side TG - Dr. Hibner
6/08 Obturator neuralgia - Dr. Conway 11/08 Disability, piriformis syndrome - Dr. Howard
4/09 Bilateral obturator decompression surgery, BLL RSD - Dr. Howard
9/10 Removed left side TOT, botox, re-evaluate obturator nerve - Dr. Hibner
2/11 LFCN and saphenous neuralgia - Dr. Dellon 2/11 MRI with Dr. Potter - confirmed entrapment
5/11 Right side TG - Dr. Hibner 2012 Left side TG - Dr. Hibner
- helenlegs 11
- Posts: 1779
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:39 am
- Location: North East England
Re: Guidelines on Chronic Pelvic Pain
Yes girls, I love it too. I did have the previous one but this surpasses that one by far for accurate detail.
It is a little frustrating that they seem to think that all medical specialities have a good knowledge about pelvic nerve pain however, something WE know isn't true.
On page 25, for instance; After an examining physician notes the chronic pelvic pain persons history and then doing a physical examination the algorithm for diagnosing and managing CPP asks the question any 'symptom of a well known disease?' YES or NO. But we all know how dreadfully under recognised and often totally unknown PN actually is for them to answer that question correctly.
So many of Chronic pelvic pain (CPP) patients with PN could (and do) get sent down the CPPS (syndrome) route which then has the central sensitisation/previous abuse/catastrophising/depression connotation i.e. No perceivable pathology, so nothing to treat except your head. OH! If only it were true that physicians did know, because if they did, a diagnosis really can be that easy.
On page 26 I would like to know what the neurological tests during a physical examination were tho'. Sensory problems is easily explained and I wonder if it is just pelvic floor muscles they are referring to but I haven't any idea what sacral reflexes are http://www.springerlink.com/content/77321v77k2477v78/
Will read it later.
I think it does seem to cover everything that has been brought up on this forum from time to time except any connection with hip pathology (but I may have missed it, although a correlation with hip surgery page 93, 6.3.3 is mentioned) I think Lernica has mentioned this recently, with good reason, after reading that passage.
I am SO pleased that the piriformis muscle is mentioned (and quite a lot )
A couple of things of interest for me was the mention of enthesitis (page 14) 2.3.3. Muscles and pelvic pain. . . . When I had a (fairly rubbish 1T) MRN scan, enthesitis was mentioned, in fact gross enthesitis of nearly every gluteal muscle (and I'd had a massive muscle spasm for a few days after my initial fall)
As said my scan was a rubbish 1T one but I have never seen mention of enthesitis from anyone else's scans in relation to pelvic floor muscles for instance. It must be something that this team have seen, or know about to mention it here ?? Maybe this is something that could give a radiologist/physician additional clues from imaging. At least my report makes a bit more sense now anyway. The other thing was the prognosis of an average of 66% post surgical recovery up to 6 years and 40% after that time scale (page 96) 6.5.2. So all is not lost
Think it will take me some time to go through it all, and then even longer to understand it
H x
It is a little frustrating that they seem to think that all medical specialities have a good knowledge about pelvic nerve pain however, something WE know isn't true.
On page 25, for instance; After an examining physician notes the chronic pelvic pain persons history and then doing a physical examination the algorithm for diagnosing and managing CPP asks the question any 'symptom of a well known disease?' YES or NO. But we all know how dreadfully under recognised and often totally unknown PN actually is for them to answer that question correctly.
So many of Chronic pelvic pain (CPP) patients with PN could (and do) get sent down the CPPS (syndrome) route which then has the central sensitisation/previous abuse/catastrophising/depression connotation i.e. No perceivable pathology, so nothing to treat except your head. OH! If only it were true that physicians did know, because if they did, a diagnosis really can be that easy.
On page 26 I would like to know what the neurological tests during a physical examination were tho'. Sensory problems is easily explained and I wonder if it is just pelvic floor muscles they are referring to but I haven't any idea what sacral reflexes are http://www.springerlink.com/content/77321v77k2477v78/
Will read it later.
I think it does seem to cover everything that has been brought up on this forum from time to time except any connection with hip pathology (but I may have missed it, although a correlation with hip surgery page 93, 6.3.3 is mentioned) I think Lernica has mentioned this recently, with good reason, after reading that passage.
I am SO pleased that the piriformis muscle is mentioned (and quite a lot )
A couple of things of interest for me was the mention of enthesitis (page 14) 2.3.3. Muscles and pelvic pain. . . . When I had a (fairly rubbish 1T) MRN scan, enthesitis was mentioned, in fact gross enthesitis of nearly every gluteal muscle (and I'd had a massive muscle spasm for a few days after my initial fall)
As said my scan was a rubbish 1T one but I have never seen mention of enthesitis from anyone else's scans in relation to pelvic floor muscles for instance. It must be something that this team have seen, or know about to mention it here ?? Maybe this is something that could give a radiologist/physician additional clues from imaging. At least my report makes a bit more sense now anyway. The other thing was the prognosis of an average of 66% post surgical recovery up to 6 years and 40% after that time scale (page 96) 6.5.2. So all is not lost
Think it will take me some time to go through it all, and then even longer to understand it
H x
Fall 2008. Misdiagnosed with lumber spine problem. MRN June 2010 indicated pudendal entrapment at Alcocks canal. Diagnosed with complex variant piriformis syndrome with sciatic, pudendal and gluteal entrapment's by Dr Filler 2010.Guided piriformis botox injection 2011 Bristol. 2013, Nerve conduction test positive; new spinal MRI scan negative, so diagnosed for the 4th time with pelvic nerve entrapment, now recognised as Sciatic, pudendal, PFCN and cluneal nerves at piriformis level.