Acupuncture

[calluna]

Faith, I bought my press needles online here in the UK - this is the company.

If you search for 'press needles' I am sure you will find plenty of places selling them, they are often sold for auricular acupuncture and usually say that they can be left in place for several days. I usually only leave mine for 3 days but have been known to forget to change them, and leave them longer with no ill effects.

As I said before, nothing dramatic but it does seem to help a bit, and anything that helps at all is good, I think.

[hauben6]

I have been going to acupuncture for approx. 6 months, every 7-10 days. I have had decreased sensation in my bladder, bowel (knowing when I have to go) and genitals from belly button to the back of my waistline. In the past two weeks, I have been wearing 24000 volts of magnets on my sacral area along with an SI belt that has 800 volts of magnets; in the past 2 weeks, I have gain some (a little...I'll take it!) sensation back and I have had less pain upon waking in the a.m. I have never hear of this type of treatment, but apparently the magnets draw red & white blood cells to the area, and target any scar tissue ect.

I am either either really gullable (be nice), or there tends to be truth to this type of treatment.

[Faith]

Wanted to share my experience with my first acupuncture treatment. It honestly felt worthless as it didn't help at all. She inserted the needles and then connected them to something like a TENS unit (I use one of those at home occasionally for my sacral pain). I dont' see how that is going to provide any long term relief because once the TENS unit is removed the pain comes back. I was disappointed because I gave this doctor some info on PN, but she didn't even look at the paper. She practices holistic medicine and is the only person in my area who does acupuncture. My goal with acupuncture though isn't to treat my PN, but my widespread myofascial "fibromyalgia"type pain. She treats lots of fibro, but she didn't put the needles in my neck which is one of my most painful spots. I find that strange. In my opinion massage lasts longer and seems to treat my widespread myofasical pain better. She said in 3-4 visits you will at least see a tiny bit of improvement, even if it only lasts for an hour. If not she doesn't keep taking people's money (which I appreciate). I don't know if I will go back for a 2nd visit honestly. I think it's a waste of my money personally.

Karyn I know you got myofasical relief after 2x week visits for 14 weeks, but at 65$ a visit for me there is no way I could afford that. That would be $1820!!

[calluna]

I'm so sorry that it felt worthless.

I don't know anything about using TENS with acupuncture points, and I have no experience with it either, so I can't comment on this.

But I do know that it is very common for acupuncture needles to be placed in areas that are away from the pain. For instance mine were placed in my feet and legs, my hands, and my head - this for classic PN pain. The nurse did tell me at the time that many people don't feel any effect at all after the first session, if after three sessions there is still no response then they stop. I actually had a flare after the first session, this was regarded as a positive indication. But it wasn't until the 3rd or 4th session that I was able to identify that it was helping. It is not necessarily a 'quick fix' at the beginning.

[Karyn]

HerMajesty wrote:
Me and my neurontin-brain lost track of your case updates Faith so I don't know if you are also just biding your time while waiting for appointments etc...but just as a heads-up I don't think the accupuncture is a viable long term solution.

I agree HM. I am just trying to get pain management while I await an appointment in August with Dr. Hibner.

Karyn wrote:
1. Acupuncture treats the whole body, not a specific body part.
2. You will NOT see dramatic improvement in 3 - 6 visits. Especially if you're only planning on going 1ce a week.

That is my goal to help my widespread myofascial pain with acupuncture. My acupuncturist/doctor said in 3-4 visits you will at least see a tiny bit of improvement, even if it only lasts for an hour. If not she doesn't keep taking people's money (which I appreciate).

My first treatment felt worthless, it didn't help at all. She inserts the needles and then connects them to something like a TENS unit. I dont' see how that is going to provide any long term relief because once the TENS unit is removed the pain comes back. In my opinion massage lasts longer and seems to treat my underlying problem better. Ok, I will stop talking about this here and move it to the acupuncture thread. Just wanted to clarify those things.

Hi Faith,
No, you wouldn't notice any improvement at all after the first visit. Holistic treatments, whether it be herbs, or ayurveda, acupuncture, etc ... greatly differ than "western medicine". Western medicine generally treats the symptoms, which more often than not, will provide immediate, temporary relief. Holistic treatments actually have the potential to target the cause, not the symptoms, so relief isn't immediately forthcoming. These modalities heal and healing takes time. Does that make sense? I received the same type of acupuncture as you did with the Electrical Stimulation Needling. I didn't receive any pain relief at all until maybe my 4th treatment. And even then, it was so subtle and vague. I knew I missing some kind of pain, but couldn't really put my finger on it. I don't know if it's the same for you, but when you've got all kinds of nerve pain going on for yourself AND this myofacial stuff, it was very difficult for me to identify where exactly my pain was coming from. Additionally, I had a really, really hard time lying on that table for hour because of the sacral pain. But anyhow, I know it's very expensive. I actually had to borrow money from my family in order to go. For me, it was well worth it. As I mentioned previously, it didn't help with the nerve pain at all, but it did completely and utterly obliterate the myofascial pain. My last treatment was about a year ago and it still hasn't come back. I don't know what the severity of your myofascial pain is, but mine was pretty severe and scary! It started in my lower abdomen and just kept spreading at an alarming rate! It started in my lower abdomen, progressed to the tops of my thighs, my hips, my butt, down the entire length of my legs, then spread up higher on my abdomen to the point where it was under my rib cage. I didn't have very many places for it to go anymore and I was afraid it would spread to my chest. My acupuncturist truly cared about me and was confident she could stop this. She told me right up front that it wouldn't be a quick fix and that she wouldn't give up on me. She was right on all accounts and she did stick with me. I really do believe her confidence, skill and dedication were detrimental to curing me. It was just completely and utterly unacceptable to her that I was in so much pain! So, bottom line - IF there's any way you can afford it, have patience and stick with it. Maybe you won't need 12 weeks of treatment. You're body will tell you when you've reached your therapuetic limit, one way or the other. This was my second round of acupuncture. I only went 6 times the first time and had no myofascial pain for about 2 months. Then it came back with a vengence. I stopped going because, (1) the pain was gone. (2) I couldn't afford to keep going. I stuck with it longer the second time around and the treatments were effective and successful.
I hope this helps!
Warmest of regards,
Karyn

[Faith]

I don't know what the severity of your myofascial pain is, but mine was pretty severe and scary!

I basically hurt from my head to my feet. I wake up feeling like I worked out all night long (all my muscles are so sore and have large knots in them). I have been having a lot of pain in my forearms lately, how crazy is that?! Sometimes I get headaches but if I get more rest and massage the knots in my neck it usually gets better. So yes, my myofascial pain is severe.

Additionally, I had a really, really hard time lying on that table for hour because of the sacral pain.

So you were lying on your back? I was put on my stomach on a massage table. The treatment was only 15 minutes.

So, bottom line - IF there's any way you can afford it, have patience and stick with it.

Yes, I could use our savings for this, but I just can't justify it since we are already financially struggling since I can hardly work. I might get better, but as severe as my myofascial pain is I find it highly unlikely. It's more of pain management for me, but it's just such an expensive form of pain management.

[Karyn]

I have been having a lot of pain in my forearms lately, how crazy is that?!

Funny you should mention that, Faith - Over the last month or so, I've been experiencing some severe arm pain. It's on top of my elbows. ??? It started with my left elbow and last week, the right one started. Some times it radiates to my forearms, but I really don't understand this and I'm a little frightened. I need to use my arms! It's definitely not nerve or muscle pain. I don't know WHAT it is. It hurts in the area above/on top of my elbows, not the elbow itself. Very little to no surface pain, like, it doesn't hurt if I press on the area. It is very painful to clench a fist, reach, pull towards or lift ANYTHING.
I feel so bad about your myofascial pain. When I had it, it didn't feel like I had worked out too much, but rather that I was beaten. I'm impressed you're able to tolerate massage. I'm so glad it helps you, even it's for a little while.
No, I suffered laying on my back for the acupuncture treatments. I've never heard of anyone getting a 15 minute treatment before. Usually they're 45 minutes to an hour.
It's a shame that acupuncture isn't covered by insurance. I totally get not being able to afford it. I also paid $65 per treatment, but like I said, it was for a whole hour.
For me, the acupuncture really wasn't pain management. It was a cure for the myofacial pain.
Warm regards,
Karyn

[Charlie]

I wish people all the best if they find acupuncture helpful but personally I don't see any evidence for it. If people find it helpful it may be because of a dry needling effect - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_needling

These articles discuss acupuncture.

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005 ... e_it_.html

There is also a series of articles listed about acupuncture on this website.

http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007 ... e-stu.html

[Celeste]

I have been having a lot of pain in my forearms lately, how crazy is that?!

Funny you should mention that, Faith - Over the last month or so, I've been experiencing some severe arm pain. It's on top of my elbows. ??? It started with my left elbow and last week, the right one started. Some times it radiates to my forearms, but I really don't understand this and I'm a little frightened. I need to use my arms! It's definitely not nerve or muscle pain. I don't know WHAT it is. It hurts in the area above/on top of my elbows, not the elbow itself. Very little to no surface pain, like, it doesn't hurt if I press on the area. It is very painful to clench a fist, reach, pull towards or lift ANYTHING.

Sounds exactly like what I went through when I had tennis elbow, which is actually tendinitis. I don't play tennis, just got it somehow from daily living. It's pretty common for waitresses to get it, too, from lifting those trays and supporting them with their hands. It can take a few weeks to get rid of it, but it's totally treatable. I hope you feel better soon!

[Karyn]

I started going back for acupuncture and had my first treatment this past Tuesday. Joy had me lie on my stomach and she stuck lots of needles in my butt, legs, feet and hands. In the past, it usually takes me 2 or 3 visits to feel anything at all after a treatment. This time, as soon as I walked out the door, I noticed rectal burning and numbness (felt like I had a nerf football stuck between by butt cheeks). After that, EVERY single nerve/tendon/ligament pain I've EVER had, including the surgical pain, reared it's ugly head and made itself present. It wasn't like it all came back at once, it was slowly and gradually. As I said, I usually have NO reaction the first couple of visits, and I was a bit concerned. The next day, I had resumed my "normal" low level nerve pain. Here's what I'm thinking: The concept of acupuncture is to cure and heal ailments using energy. My nerves are no longer encased and are still quite a bit raw from their recent trauma. I was hoping this was just a reaction to raw nerves being exposed to the acupuncture energy. I went again last night and am scheduled for Tuesdays and Thursdays for the remainder of the month. Joy agreed that the energy is indeed getting to my nerves. Hoooooraaaaay! I had another reaction after leaving last night but it wasn't as bad as on Tuesday. Once again, I got that "something stuck between my butt cheeks" feeling first. Then it was only rectal pinching/stabbing, vaginal burning, vulva stabbing, nerve pain in the creases of my legs and stabbing on top of my pubic bone. Yes, I know I said "only", but believe me when I tell you it was much better than what I experienced Tuesday! Most of the symptoms subsided by the time I went to bed and today I feel ..... different. I have less pain somewhere, but can't really put my finger on where or how, exactly. I'm hoping next weeks treatments will be even better! This is my 3rd time going back and Joy has performed miracles for me. I have every reason to believe this time will be no different.
I feel so very fortunate to have found Joy. She's one of the most caring, dedicated and compassionate people I've ever met. I feel like my well being is of great importance to her and I can't say enough about her skills and talents regarding acupuncture treatment.